So there's a lot of talk on the internet castigating American and European women for being masculine, and praising women in other countries for remaining true to their femininity.
But there's never much discussion of what feminine actually MEANS.
Basically, on all these pick-up artist and wife-hunting forums, feminine is just kind of a synonym for "hot" with sort of the added idea of "not very mouthy."
Yeah, obviously, I think anybody, even most women, would agree that it's better for women to look like models or ballerinas than like lumberjacks or merchant marines.
But my Russian girlfriend is probably the most feminine, girliest, girly-girl in the history of womankind, so I can speak with authority on the issues that people who haven't gone out with some really feminine girls aren't thinking about.
You will have to start opening doors for her. Growing up in the 70's, my generation got a kind of half-assed introduction to doing that, but I suppose guys who grew up in America in the 80's and 90's weren't even taught to do it all. (I can remember one incident when I first went to Russia, of standing dumbly in a hallway with a girl, and saying "Uh, what are you waiting for?" and her saying, "I'm waiting for you to open the door!")
If you don't live with her, you might have to go to her apartment and get her, and then escort her out on the town. Sometimes in Russia it was a 45 minute round trip to get some girl, and of course then you double the taxi money.
When we were in Russia, I had to meet her at the bus-stop after she finished work. My girlfriend is exceptionally kind and allowed me to sleep in the morning and not walk her to the bus-stop, but I know she onsidered it a bit of a dick move on my part.
You will carry her bags, and some cases she'll even want you to carry her PURSE, if it's especially large.
And here's the one most of these guys on the forums aren't going to be able to deal with --
YOU HAVE TO PAY FOR EVERYTHING. A truly feminine girl wouldn't pay for anything. She needs all her money for make-up and skin creams.
Now of course my conclusions are drawn from dealing with Russian women; but I knew guys with Thai girlfriends and I suppose it's probably the same in other countries.
There are two other issues that frequently go along with being very feminine that fortunately I don't experience with my girlfriend -- girls who buy into the whole "princess" thing are often very greedy and often extremely jealous. (Thai girls especially are known for being incredibly possessive and jealous; I knew a former boxer in Thailand who was terrified of the temper of his 40 kg Thai wife.)
After all -- she's a princess and you'll have to TREAT her like a princess.
So I doubt that these guys harping on the Internet are really thinking about a world in which all women are the epitome of feminiity, because then THEY'D have to develop the old-fashioned, elegant manners of Cary Grant and go to considerable trouble and expense to do so.
These dudes are dreaming an impossible dream of Lara Croft and video porn stars who look perfect but they can turn off immediately upon ejaculating.
20 comments:
This is the main thing the "alpha male PUA MMA DUI" crowd don't understand at all -- if you want woman to be feminine, then THEY WILL ALL HAVE TO BE MASCULINE, and that means being responsible MEN, not acting like drunken horny teenagers until they're 38.
Keep in mind that most of the men on the "get a foreign bride" forums are men who have failed badly at finding and/or keeping women in their home country. Having spent some time on those forums, I can tell you that most are men who for some reason or another just never developed any kind of social skills.
Many of them are quite affluent, but they work so much they just never figured out how to interact with women outside of the workplace. They're the ones who often get bilked because they're looking for a trophy wife and chase women 20+ years younger than them.
Most of the rest are men with severe mental problems who most sane women would never give the time of day to, regardless of what country they're in. I doubt any of that crowd has any idea of what "feminine" actually means.
Another riot is the fact that many look for Eastern European women because they think they're "submissive". That fact alone makes me chuckle.
yeah, that's defo -- the truly feminine woman actually rules the house with an iron fist.
i think you've got it ass-backwards here X, a pimp don't open doors for his ho!
I dated a girl in Taiwan once, about 6 months after my arrival. On the first proper date we went window shopping in a mall and she wanted to hold hands.
I did, but every 5 minutes or so i would feel uncomfortable and let go. And then 5 minutes later i'd hold her hand again for a while, and then feel uncomfortable, etc. Over the course of an hour and a bit i guess.
By the time we left the mall she was crying and wanted me to drop her at her home.
And there was me confused and a little angry that i didn't get any kudos for holding her hand in public on a first date for over half an hour total.
learning experience.
Well, I've never met a feminine "ho". Being a true 'ho' is, almost by definition, a masculine personality endorsed and promoted by feminism.
Also, last anonymous, you can't hold a girls hand when she wants it? That's pretty basic stuff and its strange that it makes you uncomfortable.
Finally, the guy who devalues all men who seek foreign women: your on about a few things but you over generalize. Its clear devaluation born out of some personality need of your own. Separating them into your two groups of "social failures" and "mentally disordered" is indicative of this.
I know plenty of men that are fed up with dating women who have personality disorders here, usually narcissistic in nature, and therefore seek women brought up in more traditional, family oriented environments. As X states, that comes with its own hornets nest, but at least a man can choose a woman that hasn't been programmed to feel entitled, self-centered (and therefore unkind), and that she can divorce and switch men at her whim, while coming out ahead almost every time. Your analysis smacks of hating. I find that in the USA, if you don't see the game as being rigged against men, then you aren't a master of it and the shoe will drop eventually. Most male apologists are the bitch in their respective relationships. The masculine women here demand that role of them. At least many foreign women, while they may run the house, will demand that their men maintain the masculine role in every other environment.
woman makes you pay, carry her bags, pick her up at the door, kowtow to her whims -- that's not being a bitch? it's just a different form than the "you don't love me enough" and "do I look fat?" whining of western chicks
I can't provide a very accurate number, but I'd say more than half of the marriages I know of American or British or Austrailian guys to Russian, Thai, Ethiopian, Phillipino, etc women that I have personally known, have ended in divorce, usually because the woman leaves.
The guys didn't lose everything because in most cases these were guys with no money or anything to lose. The women took the citizenship, went to America or England or Australia where there were plenty more wealthy men looking for wives, and struck again.
So it seems like a 50 percent divorce rate is pretty common anywhere divorce is allowed.
I quoted this elsewhere on the site, it always struck me as a perceptive statement, especially about Russian girls:
"A man with no trace of the feminine in him, with no duality at all, is a man without tenderness, sympathy, gentleness, kindness, responsiveness. He is brute-mean, a hammer, a fist. McGee, what is a woman with no trace of the masculine in her makeup?"
"Mmm. Merciless in a different way?"
"You show promise, McGee. The empathy of kindness is a result of the duality, not of the feminine trace."
-- John D. MacDonald, BRIGHT ORANGE FOR THE SHROUD
here are the feminine qualities that the usual alpha male PUA / MMA / DWI forum troll desires in his woman:
1) slim and beautiful
2) submissive but really friendly,
3) not slutty, but will sleep with creepy pick up artists.
4)intelligent, but like not so intelligent that she doesn't like creepy pick up artists rattling on about astrology and doing magic tricks and stuff
5)willing to become completely adoring sex slave with no idea of profit to herself
yeah, you can tell these fucking dorks wandering around bars doing magic tricks and dropping "negs" are really ready to become responsible, reliable protectors and providers. no doubt!
even neal strauss concluded at the end of THE GAME that most pickup artists were unlikeable, childish, obsessive dorks. it's like these people didn't read their own bible.
I would say I agree that a lot of the problem with American women -- probably Americans in general -- is the neurotic aspect, and narcissim.
too bad your penis fell off, x!
To the anonymous who thinks I was devaluing all men who search for a foreign bride:
No, you got me all wrong. Considering I myself will rarely date an American woman anymore, I'm not over generalizing the type of men who look overseas for a woman. Hence, why I said "most" and not "all".
What I was railing on was not the fact that men are having to look overseas, but the fact that many (and yes, dare I say most) who do just do not have realistic expectations of what they'll find. Yes, the dating scene in much of the US is stacked heavily in a woman's favor. There's no doubt about that. However, it's not quite so simple in the international dating scene, either, and men still have to use common sense. Unfortunately, many (and again, yes, most) who tend to look overseas just don't have any.
given the enormous number of men who have gone abroad to bang/marry women in the last 5 years -- is the dating scene abroad still stacked in favor of the man?
X, you're talking about a scale of thousands of men choosing from a pool of millions of women. And I wouldn't say it's necessarily stacked in favor of the man. I think many would just be happy with a level playing field.
about half the Russian girls I knew in Vodkaberg live in America or Western Europe now.
Finding a 3rd world girl and bringing her to the West is a gigantic waste of time. You gotta pull up stakes permanently.
"is the dating scene abroad still stacked in favor of the man?"
Yes, visit any Ukrainian town outside of Kiev.
I just found your blog and find it interesting. Some of the comments about men looking overseas for serious gf/wife are spot on. Some have problems, many have no money or common sense or both. I'm in the no money camp and frankly I think that will protect me from the other stuff and I will find a woman similar to yours with many of the same qualities your lady has.
Good Luck and continued success
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